Transcript

This transcript was automatically transcribed by Scribie and corrected by ChatGPT.  It has been lightly edited for clarity and ease of reading.

0:00:08.2 Jessica Risker: Hey everybody, welcome to Music Therapy. 

I'm Jessica Risker, a musician based right here in Chicago, Illinois, and I am also a licensed Clinical Professional Counselor. 

Music Therapy is an existential podcast for musicians and music fans. We delve into what it all means to be a musician these days and have in-depth conversations with your favorite artists. 

Today, I am talking with one of my favorite artists, a relatively new artist to me. She's been around for a little while, but I am recently a huge fan. This is definitely a fangirl episode, but I'm excited to share her music with you guys if you have not heard her yet. 

Her name is Salami RoseJoe Louis. Let me tell you about her in a second. 

First, I want to encourage you, if you're listening on iTunes or Spotify, to give us a rating and a few words. On Spotify, they have polls, I don't know if you've seen it, but take a moment to answer the poll. 

Visit musictherapypodcast.com for previous episodes and upcoming events.

 Let's talk about today's featured artist, Salami Rose, Joe Louis.

0:01:22.3 Jessica Risker: Salami Rose Joe Lewis is a multi-instrumentalist female producer from California, signed to Flying Lotus' independent label, Brainfeeder. 

Drawing influences from jazz, soul, hip-hop, and pop, she creates a blend of experimental sounds with jazz-influenced vocals and keys.

 I came across Salami Rose, Joe Louis' music, I think it was on a Spotify playlist, and I was pretty immediately hooked. I got to know her catalog and reached out, and she was nice enough to write back and agree to be on the show. We have a really great conversation about her creative process, about her brand new album that just came out. The way she approaches writing her albums is really interesting, and I think you guys are gonna find that fascinating. We'll also get into some mental health stuff too. We'll hear a couple of tracks from her new album sprinkled throughout the episode. 

Here's my conversation with Salami Rose, Joe Louis. Okay, I am here with Lindsey Olson, otherwise known as Salami Rose Joe Louis. 

Lindsey, thank you so much for being here today.

0:02:38.1 Salami Rose Joe Louis: Thank you for having me.

0:02:41.0 Jessica Risker: I'm a very big fan of your music, and I'm so excited that you agreed to this interview. I start out every interview with an artist with the same question to give us a sense of a musician's life, and the question is: can you describe a typical week in your life these days?

0:03:01.1 Salami Rose Joe Louis: That's a great question. It's so all over the place. It's kind of hard to properly answer that because I think every week is a little bit different. Right now, I've been taking on a lot of great projects to help fund my upcoming tour, so I've been doing a lot of production work. 

As for my daily routine, I've always been really bad at that, so sometimes I work really late at night, sometimes I work in the morning. It's a little bit disorderly.

0:03:43.4 Jessica Risker: When you say "work," are you referring to working on music?

0:03:46.9 Salami Rose Joe Louis: Yes, sorry. I've been producing, recording, and working on remixes for other artists, which I really love doing.

0:03:59.3 Jessica Risker: That's interesting in itself, that each week can look really different for you.

0:04:08.6 Salami Rose Joe Louis: Yeah, definitely. I think a lot of it depends on whether or not I have performances. Right now, I'm also gearing up for a tour, so I've been trying to practice a lot and get my live set together. It sort of... Yeah, it depends on what's happening and what's coming in. I guess that's the life of a musician where things come in really quickly and you have to accommodate them. But I wish it was more structured. You know?

0:04:49.6 Jessica Risker: Why would you like more structure?

0:04:52.8 Salami Rose Joe Louis: I feel like I'm a really spacey person, and sometimes it feels a little bit like it adds to my instability when everything changes all the time, and you always have to be ready for something to come in that you really want to do and drop everything to do it.

I don't know. I think it's... I don't know, I have the memory of when I used to work in labs as a scientist and as a lab technician, and it was a little bit calmer and maybe a little bit more grounded to know what I was doing every day. But at the same time, I love... It's really exciting for things to always be changing.

0:05:55.3 Jessica Risker: Does it feel like when life is more structured versus less routine, does that impact the music you're making or even the practice of making music or working on music?

0:06:10.2 Salami Rose Joe Louis: Yeah, I was just talking about this recently. Sometimes, when I have a family wedding or when I've been moving around a lot, it takes me a couple of days to get back into the rhythm of making music. It's hard to settle and constantly be changing. When it comes to making music, although there's lots of fuel for inspiration, for sure. But yeah, it takes me some time to set up all my gear, so if I play a show and then come back and rearrange everything, it's kind of... It's not conducive to just getting right in there and making music. But it's also always fun to play live and it inspires music in a whole different way. Do you like to play live?

0:06:46.4 Jessica Risker: Do you like to play live?

Salami Rose Joe Louis:  I do, I do. I enjoy both. I love performing, but I'm also very introverted. So sometimes being social is hard for me, and I love the creative process. I think that's my favorite part, making the music. Although performing is always so special too...

0:07:52.3 Jessica Risker: So, okay, tell me, when you're in your creative zone, I'm curious about what that relationship looks like for you. Is it something that you really love that part? Does it always feel good? Are there times where it feels like a struggle? How do you experience when you're creating music?

0:08:16.2 Salami Rose Joe Louis: Well, to be 100% transparent, I feel like creating music has become such an obsession in my life that it has also led to me isolating myself a lot. I'm always like, "Oh, I just need two weeks by myself, completely alone, and I'll make so much music." And I think I've put a lot of pressure on myself. 

And I think that process, although it has led to creating a lot of music, has also had dark, very depressing moments. It also puts a lot of pressure on the music itself to be fruitful. If it's not going well, then I feel devastated. Yeah, I don't know, I have an intense relationship with music. I'm trying to find a better balance with it.

0:09:24.0 Jessica Risker: So you work... You use the word "obsess" and you kind of get hunkered down, it sounds like, maybe to the exclusion of outside life or relationships or other things. I'm wondering... Okay, so I'm just, I'm wondering... You kind of spoke to it. It feels like there's a mix, the way that you're talking about it right now. There's a mix between enjoying what you're doing, perhaps in the flow or whatever you want to call it, you didn't say that, but I'm wondering if that's part of it. 

But also, it sounds like you're putting a certain type of pressure on yourself or wanting a certain type of output or maybe a certain kind of result. Is that accurate?

0:10:05.1 Salami Rose Joe Louis: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I think... I've noticed that one thing I'm really trying to work on is I place so much value and self-worth in whether or not I've made a good song that day. So if I have a day where I'm just not making anything that I like or I think is really... Maybe, I don't really know how to emotionally cope with that, and it really, really gets me down. 

But then when music is going well and I've made something I really like, I feel ecstatic. So it feels like, in some ways, I'm sure this is a very common experience that musicians have, but as I get older, I'm really trying to remember that there's more to me than just this output, and I need to remember not to be so hard on myself if I'm feeling creatively stuck. 

0:11:20.3 Jessica Risker: I did an episode recently with another therapist, and she was talking about how we essentially romanticize our relationship with music, like, "This is a beautiful thing, and we should all have this creative outlet in our lives." But we don't talk as much about how hard it can be sometimes to access that or to feel good about what you're making, or just the struggles that come along with that, or the identity that we might put ourselves into what we're making. And that's part of the reason I wanted to ask you about that because I feel like the more people share, like, "I like doing this, but it's actually really hard sometimes." 

0:11:59.0 Salami Rose Joe Louis: For sure. Yeah, it's really interesting because actually, this last album, the one that's coming out, it honestly took so much out of me. And I know that sounds... I don't know, it sounds weird to say, but it genuinely felt like it was eating parts of myself. It's super freaky, the idea of it now being out in the world, to be on its own and maybe judged or... I don't know, it's like... But for me, it was like this thing that was such a heavy process making it, and I really like... Sometimes I'm like, I need to find a better way to make music.

0:12:54.5 Jessica Risker: When you say it was a heavy process, what do you mean by that?

0:12:57.6 Salami Rose Joe Louis: I guess for me, it was all the self-imposed isolation. And I don't know, maybe this is too much to divulge, but I was feeling so down throughout a lot of the process, and I had a lot of intense life things going on. And it really felt like it was my main coping mechanism. But at the same time, I was relying on it so much. And so sometimes I would stay up until, I don't know, 8:00 a.m. just trying and trying to make something I would be happy with, and it would somehow make the intensity of the process worthwhile. 

Yeah, I think I spent too much time in solitude. It was also the first time I ever lived alone, so I think I've now learned that that's not a good idea for me because then I just become a hermit and put a lot of pressure on myself. But... Sorry, this is quite personal.

0:14:09.6 Jessica Risker: It's really, really... You have at least one song about how... And I don't remember the name of it, but I remember listening to it where it's kind of like, "I'm gonna lose all my friends if I keep doing this, my partner or something like that." And I remember thinking, "Oh, she's talking about..."

0:14:26.2 Salami Rose Joe Louis: Yeah, for sure. It's very real, and I have actually had a couple of friends kinda give up on me, and it's been really sad because... And it's because I never felt like I had time for them. So I'm actively trying to get out of this kind of mindset. It's been a big wake-up call that it's really important, like friends and family, and the relationships in your life are so incredibly important. I don't know when and how I got so obsessed with just this idea that I need to just be making stuff all the time, but I just... I need to snap out of it.

0:15:10.7 Jessica Risker: Do you feel like with the stuff that you're working on right now or when you return to working down the road on something, how do you think you'll approach that? When I wrote you before and you filled out this form and you talked about work-life balance and creativity and mental health, and so I think that we're talking about all the right things here. Do you have a sense of how you would like to feel more balanced or leave more room for all of the elements in your life as you move forward with making music?

0:15:40.3 Salami Rose Joe Louis: Yeah, that's a great question. I would really like to prioritize spending time with people, living with other people. And also, I think I want to somehow try to detach myself from this pressure. I've been thinking about trying to see a therapist, but I haven't been able to figure that out with my hectic schedule. And one thing that was helping me with some depression was trying to exercise, which is something that really doesn't come naturally to me. But it was really helping me. 

So, yeah, I think that's why I... To touch on what we were talking about earlier, routine is something that I really romanticized because if I have the time to take care of myself, like my health and exercise, then I do feel so much better. But sometimes, with touring and stuff like that, it's so hard to keep up with these habits. Sometimes we get back, I just crash and get really drained. But yeah, I'm just trying to find routines, and I would like to prioritize being a human too, and not just putting my work or my sense of self as the only priority.

0:17:29.5 Jessica Risker: Oh, I'll give a shout out to Backline. Have you heard of Backline?

Salami Rose Joe Louis: No, what is it?

Jessica Risker: It's a musician's non-profit that focuses on mental health. But I know that they provide support for musicians. For anybody listening to the podcast, I'll put a link in the session notes for this episode. If a musician is making a certain amount of income, they will help connect you with a therapist.

Salami Rose Joe Louis: Oh, that's cool. Yeah, it's a resource I want to share with you and anyone else who might be interested. Well, I think it's really important, and I appreciate you saying all that. I know it was vulnerable, but it's something that many musicians can relate to, the struggle to find balance, self-worth, and dealing with pressure.

0:18:23.5 Salami Rose Joe Louis: Yeah, thank you for acknowledging that. It's really tricky being a musician, and I think many musicians can relate to the financial difficulties, especially in the United States or maybe anywhere. Each time I think I've reached a certain level of success, it feels like I'm actually making less. I have to rely on music day jobs because I can't solely rely on my own music to pay my bills. 

Putting all of my heart, soul, and time into something I love so much can be overwhelming when it's financially challenging. But at the same time, it's also special because it's something I do because I love it, and that part is really cool.

0:19:57.9 Jessica Risker: Let's take a little music break here and listen to some of the music that I've been working on. These songs are already out, they're singles, but they're on your new album. Let's listen to...

0:20:14.7 Salami Rose Joe Louis: I guess we can listen to "Akousmatikous".

0:20:18.8 Jessica Risker: Can you tell us about this track...

0:20:21.7 Salami Rose Joe Louis: Yeah, so this one is the first track on my new record, and it was actually the first day of my self-imposed isolation. It's a concept story about this humanoid being. It's a follow-up to my last sci-fi album, so I won't go into all the details because it's a lot. But basically, we start out on a world where these humans have had their faces turned into screens and their hands turned into screens, and they're caught in these feedback loops. 

So they're in a state of complacency. And then there's this one humanoid being who hasn't had his face and hands turned into screens. He's manipulating the images on the screens to keep them in a state of complacency. And then there's this being from a distant galaxy who comes to visit him and questions him on the ethics of what he's doing. He's doing it because he wants the plants to grow back on the planet since humans have been messing with it for so long. But she asks why they can't find a symbiotic way to achieve his love for plants. So that's the gist of the song.

0:22:08.2 Jessica Risker: Okay, great. Thank you for that explanation. Now, let's take a listen to "Akousmatikous" 

[music plays]

 Okay, that was amazing. I loved it. It feels like there was maybe more beatwork on this. Is that gonna be part of this new album in general?

0:25:48.3 Salami Rose Joe Louis: So that song was actually a collaboration with a band from the UK called Soccer 96. They jumped on it and added some synths, and it was really fun. I would say there are a lot of beats on this album, but also some more melodic sounds. It's a balance.

0:26:19.1 Jessica Risker: When you were describing that song and just looking into... First of all, just listening to your music and also reading previous interviews with you, it's clear how visual you are. I'm wondering how much does imagery or visuals play into your creative process when you're making a song? What does that look like for you?

0:27:01.4 Salami Rose Joe Louis: That's a good question. I'm glad it comes across that way. Yeah, I actually think the initial motivation for trying to write out these stories ahead of time before picking the music is for two reasons. I love the idea of scoring rules. So initially, for my last conceptual album, I wrote and actually made a whole comic book template of the story I wanted to make into an animated movie, and then I wrote the music to that, which was super fun. 

But I think one of the motivations is that lyrics don't come particularly naturally to me, and sometimes in the moment, I really just want to make the music and the sonics. And if I'm not careful, I think my lyrics can be a little rushed, if that makes sense. And I really wanted to be intentional about the concepts and ideas that I'm talking about so that I can bring up interesting things to think about and not always sing about my heart pains. So that was a big motivating factor for trying to make things a little bit more conceptual.

0:28:40.5 Jessica Risker: So there's a lot of pre-production work that goes into your music, it sounds like.

0:28:46.2 Salami Rose Joe Louis: Yeah. It helps, it helps. Because for me, when I'm making music, if a song happens in a flash, it can happen really quickly. And I like to get the focus down straight away when I'm in the mood and the vibe of what's happening in the atmosphere. I don't usually overdub for my own projects. I usually record in the moment. 

Jessica Risker:  That's interesting.

0:29:16.8 Salami Rose Joe Louis: And so I think, yeah, having lyrics or ideas at the ready helps ensure that I'm not just saying something that maybe later I would be embarrassed. That it's more intentional.

0:29:37.4 Jessica Risker: So you have lyrics at the ready, so that... Are you trying to find melodies to fit those lyrics?

0:29:43.4 Salami Rose Joe Louis: Yeah, I have ideas or concepts that maybe I would want to sing about at the ready when it happens.

Not all the time. Definitely, sometimes I'm just saying whatever comes to my mind. 

0:29:53.4 Jessica Risker: When you're composing... I'm thinking about this process, and I think that's really interesting. I can relate to that. Sometimes you just capture the way that you're seeing something, and you just can't quite get it if you do it two days later. I'm wondering, with your songs and the way they're composed as they are, do you chop them up and rearrange them in logic or something like that afterwards? Or how does that look when you're composing?

0:30:24.8 Salami Rose Joe Louis: Yeah, so I work on this M8800 workstation as my main DAW, and usually I'll record all the parts and everything. And kind of similarly to the book, as usually, it's like the song is created in that first... In that moment... And the only thing I'll do maybe later is mix it. But usually all of the parts and synths and bass and everything, it happens there, with the two exceptions on this album. 

Like the song we just listened to, if I send it to my friends in the UK and they added their playing and vocals to it, and the same thing happened with another track I released, where I sent it to my friends and they added their playing as well. 

But yeah, I feel like songs feel like these little photographs from an energy or mood or something I can't really put words on, so I try to do as much as I can in that moment because it feels really precious for it to be of that moment. But maybe that's not the best move, I don't know. Sometimes I worry that my music is a little too under-baked. 

0:32:04.4 Jessica Risker: Okay, so are the songs... Do they exist in your mind, and then you're just trying to create them? Or are they coming to life as you're playing around with the music?

0:32:13.1 Salami Rose Joe Louis: They come to life as I play around. Yeah, and sometimes I'll write a song and then chop up that song, sample it to make a new song. And I think that I do that a lot, just sampling myself until something sort of sticks and feels right. I feel like I start composing in a different way every time. 

Sometimes I'll start with drums, sometimes I'll start with keys, sometimes like sampling my voice or something. But I used to write music just on piano, and I'm actually... Composing is kind of a secret that I'm composing an instrumental piano outro, which I think will be very different because it's like... Yeah, it's so different from my other stuff, and making it really long-form compositions. And those I just work on a little bit every time I have the chance to get to be around an acoustic piano, which is not often.

0:33:23.4 Jessica Risker: What is the inspiration behind the album?

0:33:28.2 Salami Rose Joe Louis: I love playing piano, and I have a lot of compositions that I've made on piano over the years that I've never recorded. And so I just love to record them. And it can sound very different than my other stuff.

0:33:46.8 Jessica Risker: That's cool. Sometimes that's nice to take a break and do something that feels really different. Yeah, yeah. Let's take another little music break here. Can you tell us about this other track? This is "Dimcola Reprised."

0:34:01.4 Salami Rose Joe Louis: Yeah, so this track, I was really, really in a tough spot emotionally, and I was trying to write myself a pep talk on it. And so that is where the inspiration for this song comes from, just trying to write some kind of self-therapy, if that's the right word. I don't...

0:34:42.7 Salami Rose Joe Louis: It's really hard for it to be coming out because it came from a really intense place, but I'm hoping that it is helpful and maybe to me, there's a lot of intensity and hurt and desperation in the song, but with this kind of forceful movement in the beat that hopefully keeps you going. So that... I don't know if it can help even one person, I'm glad that I made it. Help you. I think so, I think so. It was good, it's good. Yeah.

0:35:26.7 Jessica Risker: Let's take a listen. This is "Dimcola Reprised."

[music plays] 

That was "Dimcola Reprised."

 I'm curious, as we're taping this conversation, you're in this kind of in-between state where the album is made, there have been some singles released, but it's not out in the world yet. And I'm curious, how are you feeling about the upcoming release and all that can come along with that...

0:38:19.5 Salami Rose Joe Louis: Well, I guess there's a couple of things. One hard thing I have is releasing singles is very tricky for me because I wish we could just drop the whole album, because to me, the songs don't really make sense unless they're in the order and listened to at the same time. But yeah, I know. That's so much to ask. And so I feel a little bit... We just like having these singles out in the world, then we just went... We sometimes as part of the whole...

0:38:59.3 Jessica Risker: Yeah.

0:39:01.4 Salami Rose Joe Louis: Yeah, it makes me very nervous that it's coming out, I don't know, especially as we... Because it's really close to me, and I'm really scared, but I'm gonna just... I don't know. Try not to think about what will happen. And the main thing I've been trying to focus on, which is really positive is I'm so unbelievably excited to play the songs live, and I have this amazing group of musicians assembled to perform the songs with me made after the album drops for some shows. And back to me just is one of the most exciting, I'm so excited, so that part brings me so much joy and excitement, so I'm just trying to focus on that, and I can't wait to play with these musicians... That's awesome. 

0:40:02.7 Jessica Risker: Here's a question that kind of goes along with this, you talked about in this form you filled out social media. This is something that almost every single musician I talk to talks about, is the relationship with social media and the relationship with social media as an artist, and what is that like? What is that relationship like for you?

0:40:26.1 Salami Rose Joe Louis: I get a lot of pressure from the label to post, and I find that really frustrating. But I understand, I guess it's like the way to market music, so I know that their goal is to market the music. It makes sense, but what tires me is that any time I've tried to make some kind of... say, I'm playing something and it sounds cool, and then I'm like, "Oh, I should make a video to post," it completely takes me out of whatever place I was in before. So it sort of stops the creativity that was there because I need to take the time to film it. And I wish there was a way to make little videos without it... Y

eah, it's just a different mindset to focus on what is a cool little bit of sound I can release into the world, rather than exploring sounds and just making interesting things. Yeah, I don't know. And I used to get really, really frustrated by the pressure to show your face and look attractive, but I think actually, I feel like I'm in a better place with that, where I just post whatever I want to...

0:42:11.4 Salami Rose Joe Louis: I feel like I've just kind of stopped feeling like I need to do what people told me to do, which feels great. It's changed music immensely, and I think that just in general, social media has completely shortened our attention spans, and we just want to take in these tiny little packages of information, and it's just kind of changed so many different things. But yeah, I don't know. What is your relationship with social media and music?

0:42:56.3 Jessica Risker:  It's tortured. Yeah, I get it, but I feel like if you're an introverted and private person, it's counter to that whole... Yeah, your nature. I think it can be fun to have a character of sorts that you're playing, because then there's some distance between yourself and who you're putting out there, but yeah, and some people are really good at it.

0:43:27.4 Salami Rose Joe Louis: Yeah, yeah, for sure. I guess that's another sort of sad reality, is that just the rules of play in the music industry changed so much because if your strength is self-promotion, or maybe it's always been good to be good at self-promotion, but if you're comfortable with that and comfortable having your life displayed on the regular, then... Yeah, we... 

But I will say, I also... I should say that one thing that frustrates me a little bit about labels putting pressure on artists to do social media stuff, it really does feel like a full-time job to constantly be making content, and labels pay for press, and I think they should also pay artists for social, like if they're gonna do it themselves, it feels like they're just adding extra work for the artist, but there's no extra income and... Yeah, I don't know how people do it. Honestly, I think in my days, I have to choose one or the other, like Am I gonna be making... Even though I barely make content, I'm so bad, but in theory, am I gonna be making content or am I gonna be making music... I don't think you can do both in one day.

0:45:00.0 Jessica Risker: I think that's really interesting how you describe that it just takes you out of that creative space that you're making your music from, and that feels like a better place for you, that it just sucks you out.

Yeah, what do you think about AI and the stuff that's coming in?

0:45:21.5 Salami Rose Joe Louis: That's such a great question. So yeah, I've been thinking about it a lot, and I feel like we know so little about what could happen, so we're diving right in to it. It's just kind of incredible to me that we're just... We're going forward with it, even though we just have no idea.

0:45:53.5 Jessica Risker: It feels like an avalanche, like it's like... Yeah.

0:45:56.0 Salami Rose Joe Louis: Which is coming. But I don't know, I think a lot of time is spent with doomsday scenarios. I spend a lot of time thinking about doomsday scenarios with it, and there have been so many sci-fi movies and stories about where it could go wrong. But my approach, I've been trying to do, 'cause we're in it, and I don't think there's any stopping it because I think at this point, there's not a united world consensus, so governments would probably be too scared to stop anything because another government will just do it. I think it's just gonna happen. I think just trying to imagine potentially positive features is the one thing I can think of. I had a really interesting conversation with my friend about... 

I don't know if you've ever read the "Three-Body Problem." It's this sci-fi trilogy, it's really interesting, but there's this concept called the dark forest, and it's related to extraterrestrials and just how... Basically, I don't wanna give it away if anybody wants to read the book. I actually... I'm not gonna speak on it in case someone reads the book, but he was talking about the concept of the dark forest applied to AI, and I thought it was fascinating, but that's kind of a tangent because...

0:47:52.5 Jessica Risker: I'll link to it on the website, the book or the series called "The Three-Body Problem." 

Okay, so question number two is, What are your feelings on authenticity in music? What does that mean to you?

0:48:13.1 Salami Rose Joe Louis: It's such a good question. I think one of the beautiful things about music is that we're always quoting our inspirations, whether consciously or unconsciously, and I think that authenticity means something different for each person. Some people can play a cover and sing it, and it sounds so authentic because of how much they believe in it and what it means to them. 

And I think for me, my version of authenticity maybe is that I always love trying to seek out new sounding stuff. That's my main goal, whether I achieve it, I don't know, but I just want to make weird, new sounding music. But yeah, I don't know if it's achievable, just found my own authentic sound, but...

0:49:18.5 Jessica Risker: Honestly, no, that's when I was trying to figure out how I came upon the music. I know it was like on Spotify. I was listening to some artists and then you came on after, so it was like one of the suggested... And I don't remember where it started from, but yeah, it just hit me. It was like, "This sounds really fresh and it sounds really different, and it sounds kind of... And I mean this in the best way, it sounds kind of weird, spacey, and very cool, and it's funny at times, and it tells a story and it's really visual. I just love it. I really realized how much I dig it. 

So, let me... Okay, I want to ask my last question, and then I would love if you could share with the listeners what you're about to put out so they can look for it. My last question is, what, as an artist? As a musician, what does success look like to you?

0:50:17.7 Salami Rose Joe Louis: Yeah, I think success for me is getting to play the music that I want to play and play with the people I want to play with. So, I think I've already succeeded in that way. It would be nice if I could support myself on my own music and not have to take day job-type things, but I think, yeah, music success for me is just playing music with the people I want to play with and getting to... Honestly, just getting to play shows in front of people is insane. I'm always like, "You came to see me." So...

0:51:13.0 Jessica Risker: Yeah, well, I hope that sometime in the future, you'll include Chicago on your tour, and please hit me up because I would love to connect you with venues and, of course, come see you play... Can you share what's coming out? What to look for?

0:51:34.5 Salami Rose Joe Louis: Yes, so my new album is called "Akousmatikous" and it's coming out on May 19th, and it's coming out on Brain Feeder Records, also associated with an indie... Yeah, that's my thing, and I'm gonna be on tour... Hopefully, a Chicago date soon. I'm working on it. I was trying to get the date. I just don't know. Many venues there. Hopefully...

0:52:09.9 Jessica Risker: Soon. Yes, I'm so excited for the new album. Thank you so much for your time today. 

Salami Rose Joe Louis:   Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. It's been really nice talking to you. 

Okay, I want to thank Lindsey, aka Salami Rose Joe Louis, for her time today. It was such a treat to talk, and I felt very inspired after that conversation. I hope you guys did too. 

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Music Therapy is hosted by Jessica Risker, produced by Sullivan Davis of Local Universe, and engineered by Joshua Wentz in Chicago.  Peace and love until I see you again.